A fascinating interview with two retired military leaders on the threat posed to our nation by NOT MY pres drumpf / trump deploying the military in response to the anti-ice anti-hsi protest in Los Angeles. NOTE drumpf's / trump's glaring hypocrisy in not deploying D.C.'s, Virginia's or Maryland's National Guard on 6 JAN 21 because that would have been taking action against his own insurrection. He said then he could not deploy the National Guard because D.C.'s mayor and the Virginia's and Maryland's governors need to activate their National Guard. Pay close attention to what these two retired military leaders have to say, what they are warning us about. This from the PBS News Hour.....
Retired military leaders analyze Trump’s deployment of Marines and National Guard in LA
Jun 10, 2025 6:53 PM EDT
For perspective on the Trump administration’s deployment of active duty Marines to Los Angeles and the federal call-up of the National Guard, Geoff Bennett spoke with James McPherson, an under secretary of the Army during the first Trump administration, and retired Maj. Gen. David Baldwin, the top military commander of National Guard forces in California from 2011-2022.
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Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.
Geoff Bennett:
For perspective now on the Trump administration's deployment of active-duty Marines to Los Angeles and the federal call-up of the National Guard, we get two views.
James McPherson was the undersecretary of the Army during the first Trump administration. He also had a 25-year career in the Navy and served as that service's top lawyer in uniform. And retired Major General David Baldwin was the top military commander of the National Guard forces in California from 2011 to 2022.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
Jim McPherson, I want to start with you, because Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said today that deploying active-duty Marines to L.A. was the right call because, in her words, they're specifically trained to meet the need on the ground.
Is that the case? Are combat Marines really what's needed?
Rear Admiral James McPherson (Ret.), Former U.S. Undersecretary of the Army: Well, I would respectfully disagree with the secretary.
Combat Marines are trained and exercise in just that, engaging in ground combat. They're not trained and they do not exercise in crowd control or de-escalation or things like that. Now, we have heard from NORTHCOM that they have received that training, but I would ask, what was the level of that training? Was it just an hour-long briefing with a handout?
Or did they actually go through the sort of training that M.P.s go through to include, as General Baldwin knows, the California National Guard M.P.s, who do train and who do exercise in crowd control? Marines are not trained to do that. They're trained to engage in combat.
Geoff Bennett:
David Baldwin, how do you see it? And drawing on your experience, what do you make of President Trump's decision to federalize the National Guard over the objections of California's governor?
Maj. Gen. David Baldwin (Ret.), U.S. National Guard: Federalizing the National Guard for use domestically is always a suboptimal solution.
The National Guard works best when it's under state control and can work hand in glove with its law enforcement partners at the state and local level. Federalization of the Guard creates a lot of challenges. It very much limits the roles and authority that Guardsmen can use when they execute civil support missions like this one.
Ostensibly, the Guard was brought in, as they say, to be able to protect federal law enforcement officers. And it may have been a very expedient solution, but, as the secretary said, it probably wasn't the best solution.
You know, you could bring in other federal agents from around the country to come in to execute that task. So it's a little bit heavy-handed to bring the Guard in and the Marines, especially when it's over the objection of the governor of the state and indeed without the request from the law enforcement leaders on the ground, like Chief McDonnell and the sheriff of Los Angeles.
Geoff Bennett:
Jim McPherson, you mentioned the rules of engagement that were issued by NORTHCOM.
We should explain that the Northern Command is the combatant control — the combatant commands, rather, responsible for securing the homeland. And they told our team that the rules of engagement are still being finalized, but that — this is a quote — "Service members are trained in de-escalation techniques and always retain the inherent right to self-defense to a hostile act or demonstrated hostile intent."
Meantime, you got the president. He tweeted: "If they spit, we will hit."
Is that an appropriate framework for rules of engagement?
Rear Admiral James McPherson (Ret.).: I'm a little surprised that this spokesperson for NORTHCOM would use the term rules of engagement.
Rules of engagement are defined as the circumstances and the limitations that U.S. forces can initiate or continue combat engagement. Rules of engagement are designed for combat engagement. What these Marines and the National Guard will be acting under are called rules for the use of force. They are very, very different.
The other thing that I was very surprised about is, in their statement, they use the word hostile intent. Hostile intent has no play with regard to rules for the use of force. It does play with regard to rules of engagement. Again, I'm very surprised that the spokesperson for NORTHCOM would confuse those terms.
Geoff Bennett:
David Baldwin, question for you about the National Guard.
When they're activated by the governor for in-state missions, how closely do they typically coordinate with state and local law enforcement? And do you have any questions about the level of coordination happening now?
Maj. Gen. David Baldwin (Ret.):
When activated under state control, the Guard works very closely, because, after all, our mission is to support those federal law enforcement — or correction state law enforcement officials and local law enforcement officials on the ground.
We deploy liaisons at all level of their command to match the levels of our command, to make sure that we are quite closely synchronized because, as Chief McDonnell spoke earlier during the program, about how complicated it is to exercise control during events like this.
As far as coordination between the federalized National Guard and the Marine Corps, I'm hopeful that they have liaisons deployed to the civilian law enforcement agencies that are not federal, so LAPD and L.A. Sheriff and the surrounding communities. I don't know if they have done that or not. It would be prudent for them to do so.
But I do know that the National Guard is working very closely with the federal law enforcement agencies that they have been tasked to support.
Geoff Bennett:
And, Jim McPherson, you told our team that you believe the Trump administration wants to see violence escalate in California, because that would be the predicate for the president to invoke the Insurrection Act.
Tell me more about that.
Rear Admiral James McPherson (Ret.).: Well, I think it's unfortunate that this has become so politicized.
I believe that it played into their playbook that this occurred in Los Angeles in California, with a Democratic governor who's going to run for president. And I think the push here is that they will send in these armed forces who, quite frankly, are not the right mix of people to be engaged with the public.
And there's going to be an escalation. There's going to be an unfortunate incident, as there was in 1997 on the Texas border, when a similar occurrence occurred. Marines were there to provide surveillance, and they ended up shooting and killing a local teenager who was herding sheep.
I think there's going to be that escalation. And when that escalation occurs, I'm afraid the president is going to invoke the Insurrection Act, and we're going to have uniformed service members enforcing the law upon U.S. citizens, something that just shouldn't occur.
Geoff Bennett:
David Baldwin, do you share that concern about escalation?
Maj. Gen. David Baldwin (Ret.):
First, I have faith and confidence in the initiative, the training, and the perspective of the young soldiers and Marines that we have tasked to do this mission. I have great faith in the chain of command and the leadership.
However, as the secretary mentioned, things can spin out of control. And, unfortunately, in very tense situations, when people get tired and things start to happen, if someone makes a decision that their life is threatened or a federal officer's life is threatened and they choose to use deadly force, that becomes a very unfortunate incident that will escalate and cause a lot of problems.
And, now, that can, of course, happen with the law enforcement officers also, but law enforcement officers are much better trained for this than even National Guardsmen and, of course, the Marines that are on the ground.
Geoff Bennett:
And, Jim McPherson, in your view, did local officials need the help from the National Guard in the first place?
Rear Admiral James McPherson (Ret.).: Well, according to reports on the ground and the report we just heard from your report from Los Angeles, it seems to be very localized.
I'm not sure the governor nor the local authorities requested National Guard assistance. And when that assistance comes, I just don't see that it was necessary at the time. I think that was an initial escalation. And, again, while I agree with the general and have confidence in the chain of command and those forces, I just think this is going to escalate out of control, and we're going to have the Insurrection Act come into play, which is very unfortunate.
Geoff Bennett:
Admiral James McPherson and Major General David Baldwin, we thank you both for your time and for your insights this evening.
Rear Admiral James McPherson (Ret.).: Thank you.
Maj. Gen. David Baldwin (Ret.):
Thank you.
Troops deployed in LA as immigration raids stir fear and protests
Troops deployed in LA as immigration raids stir fear and protests
After a night of scattered protests against immigration raids in Los Angeles, about 700 Marines and an additional 2,000 National Guard troops began arriving Tuesday. Gov. Gavin Newsom and California's attorney general asked a court to block further intervention from the Trump administration as the president gave no sign of backing down. Special correspondent Marcia Biggs reports.
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Notice: Transcripts are machine and human generated and lightly edited for accuracy. They may contain errors.
Amna Nawaz:
Welcome to the "News Hour."
After a night of scattered protests against immigration raids in Los Angeles, about 700 Marines and 2,000 additional National Guard troops began arriving today. California Governor Gavin Newsom and the state's attorney general asked a court to block further intervention from the Trump administration.
Geoff Bennett:
But protests against ICE spread to other cities around the country this week. And, for his part, the president gave no sign of backing down, saying the Guard and Marines were needed in Los Angeles.
In a speech at Fort Bragg today, he called protesters a foreign enemy and animals and said he would use every asset to quell violence.
Special correspondent Marcia Biggs starts our coverage from Los Angeles.
Marcia Biggs:
In downtown Los Angeles today, a tense calm on the streets, with a heavy presence of National Guard members expected to be joined soon by U.S. Marines.
In the Oval Office today, President Trump flirted with the idea of invoking the Insurrection Act.
Donald Trump, President of the United States: If there's an insurrection, I would certainly invoke it. We will see. But I can tell you, last night was terrible. The night before that was terrible. We had some bad people. We had people, they look in your face and they spit right in your face. They're animals. And these are paid insurrectionists. These are paid troublemakers.
Marcia Biggs:
This morning, shop owners cleaned up several looted stores in downtown Los Angeles. But California authorities have said the majority of last night's protests were nonviolent.
In a congressional hearing today, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said troops were sent to safeguard ICE agents.
Pete Hegseth, U.S. Defense Secretary:
We have deployed National Guard and the Marines to protect them in the execution of their duties, because we ought to be able to enforce immigration law in this country.
Marcia Biggs:
The deployment is expected to last 60 days and a Pentagon official said it will cost about $134 million.
Yesterday, L.A. Police Chief Jim McDonnell said bringing in troops complicated police response to the protests.
Jim McDonnell, Los Angeles, California, Police Chief:
The introduction of a federal military personnel without direct coordination creates logistical challenges and risks confusion during critical incidents.
Marcia Biggs:
And, today, Representative Nancy Pelosi of California contrasted Trump's actions now with his handling of the January 6 insurrection.
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA):
Something is very wrong with this picture, inconsistent in his actions, contrary to his own statement that he couldn't — of a year ago that he couldn't send anyone in without the governor's consent anyplace, and in violation of the Constitution.
Marcia Biggs:
Elsewhere this week, from Atlanta to New York City, mostly peaceful protesters gathered in multiple cities to call for the end of ICE raids.
Ana Medina, Home Care Worker:
We are not criminals. We are working people. And we are not a trash can for the president. This is not a — I don't understand if this is his way to make America great again, destroy our people, destroy our communities. Destroying America, that's what he's doing.
Marcia Biggs:
At Trump Tower yesterday, more than 20 people were arrested after refusing to leave.
And in Austin overnight, police fired tear gas containers and arrested protesters.
Woman:
We were just out there peacefully protesting. We were not being aggressive towards the cops at all. We were just protesting as normal. And whenever they decided it was over, they just pushed us and used a lot of force.
Marcia Biggs:
Back in Los Angeles, demonstrators last night gathered in a small stretch of the city. Some came to protest in solidarity, even if they were scared to identify themselves.
Joel, Protester:
I am a U.S. citizen. And that's why I'm here. I'm here for my mom who can't be here. I'm here for my uncles and my family members who cannot be here today. But anybody could just look at me and be like, that's a brown guy right there. He must not be a citizen. So, even with my citizenship, I'm still fearful of being out here.
Marcia Biggs:
Kira Conner has lived in L.A. for 35 years. Yesterday, law enforcement and protesters stopped right outside her building.
How do you feel about calling in the Marines and the National Guard?
Kira Conner, Los Angeles Resident:
I have mixed feelings. I have lived here long enough through many, many riots from Northridge to this, to Rodney King to all that. So it was bound to happen and needed. So I don't think the mayor or Newsom handled anything correctly. That's my opinion. Did Trump overreact? Absolutely.
Marcia Biggs:
She says Trump is right to deport undocumented criminals, but the way the raids were conducted is ripping L.A. apart and has struck some of the city's most vulnerable communities.
Kira Conner:
Instead of being the nice, showy president, someone has to make moves. At the same time, you don't go after 30- and 40-year-old people in the Garment District that have been working there. And I know that they have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. They make up L.A. They make up downtown. And now they're gone, their families ripped apart.
To do this right after our wildfires, this is insanity. We can't take anymore.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera, Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights: We believe that about 200 people or more have been detained during the past three or four days.
Marcia Biggs:
Jorge-Mario Cabrera with the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights. He says they have been inundated with calls from families, desperate for information about their loved ones.
Jorge-Mario Cabrera:
We only know of probably a dozen or so individuals that we can actually talk to about their case, which means that the others could just simply be already deported or on their way or forced to sign, which is what we're also hearing, that people are being not forced, but certainly encouraged to sign their self-deportation.
Marcia Biggs:
How scared are people?
Jorge-Mario Cabrera:
Today, I spoke with a couple of workers that went into to do what they need to do to earn their living, honestly. And I asked them directly, why are you here? Aren't you afraid? One of them said: "What I do with my fear is, I bring it with me, put it in my pocket and go on. There's no other option for me."
Marcia Biggs:
Cabrera believes that this show of force is used as psychological warfare and a provocation, an attempt to show those who support immigrants as unruly and un-American — Amna.
Amna Nawaz:
And, Marcia, we should note you're standing outside that Metropolitan Detention Center in downtown L.A. You reported over 200 people arrested in those ICE immigration enforcement raids over the last three or four days.
What more can you tell us about the circumstances around those raids and who was arrested?
Marcia Biggs:
Well, we don't know very much, Amna, because we haven't been able to speak to anyone who's been detained. But Cabrera described warrantless dragnets meant to target indiscriminately as many Latinos as possible.
Now, of course, the administration flatly denies this and ICE maintains that everyone arrested was living here illegally. But advocates say that they have been detained and have not been able to have access to their families or to any legal representation. But what we do know is that these were all workers. They were targeted at places like a car wash, a Home Depot, a clothing manufacturer.
These were all people who were working or looking for work.
Amna Nawaz:
Marcia, what about in terms of the protests? Give us a sense of what you see and hear going on around you right now and if there's any sense of where things go from here.
Marcia Biggs:
So the scene here has been pretty quiet, almost festival-like, for the last hour or so. We just heard a flashbang. We just heard another one.
This is kind of how it's been going. This is what we saw last night. Of course, we mentioned some looting, but, in general, last night was pretty nonviolent standoff, which would erupt briefly when protesters would set off fireworks and then the LAPD would push them back.
Also keep in mind that this is happening in a very small slice of the city. It's only a few blocks of downtown L.A. And, in the rest of the city, Angelenos are going about their lives as normal.
Amna Nawaz:
All right, that's Marcia Biggs reporting for us in downtown Los Angeles.
Marcia, our thanks to you and the team. Please stay safe.
Marcia Biggs:
Thank you.
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