yahya sinwar is evil like hitler was. bibi netanyahu is evil like hitler was too. Both are willing to sacrifice the lives of Palestinians and Israelis for their own political gain. Each is committing genocide against the civilians of Gaza and the West Bank and Israel. The killing of the innocents on both sides will continue until these men are removed from power, both have to go, neither can be trusted to to maintain a cease-fire in Gaza. Click the headline below to watch the video. This from Christiane Amanpour / CNN....
He saved the life of Hamas' leader, only for his nephew to be murdered on October 7
Israeli dentist who saved Hamas leader’s life says Sinwar would ‘sacrifice 100,000 Palestinians’ to stay in power
Christiane Amanpour speaks with Yuval Bitton, who worked in Israel's prison service and spent hundreds of hours speaking with Yahya Sinwar while he was imprisoned.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
Israel's military appears to be countering Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's goals for the war in Gaza. In a TV interview, IDF Spokesman
Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari has acknowledged what many observers have been arguing for months. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL HAGARISRAEL DEFENSE FORMERS SPOKESPERSON (through translator): Hamas is an idea. Those who think we can make Hamas disappear are wrong.
I'm not talking about the alternatives. This is a decision of the political echelon, and the IDF will implement.
But the issue of eliminating Hamas is simply to throw dust in the eyes of the public. If we don't bring something else to Gaza, in the end of the
day, we will get Hamas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And my first guest agrees, and he probably knows the top level of Hamas better than anyone. That's because Israeli doctor Yuval Bitton was
working as a dentist for the state prison service in the 1990s, when he met Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar.
Bitton says they spent hundreds of hours together. And one day in 2004, when Sinwar faced a medical emergency, Bitton swooped in and saved his
life. Sinwar thanked him when he was later released in the extraordinary prisoner hostage swap for Gilad Shalit.
But on October 7th, Bitton's nephew Tamir was murdered by Hamas at Kibbutz Nir Oz. It is an extraordinary story, and Bitton tells us the lessons he
learned about what drives Hamas and Sinwar, and what the Israeli leadership continues to get wrong.
Since October 7th, Bitton has not spoken on international television until tonight. So, here's our recent conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Yuval, you said that on the morning of October 7th, you knew immediately who had planned this massacre. How come?
YUVAL BITTON, FORMER HEAD OF INTELLIGENCE, ISRAELI PRISON SERVICE AND NEPHEW KILLED AND REMAINS HELD BY HAMAS (through translator): Because I
know the person who planned and conceived and initiated this criminal attack. I have known him since 1996, and not only him, but the entire Hamas
leadership in Gaza. And it was clear to me that this is what they were planning while they were still in prison, and this is the plan of Hamas. It
was very clear to me.
AMANPOUR: You are talking about Yahya Sinwar. And you said that when you realized what happened on October 7th, you were kind of tormented by what
you did for him in jail. You essentially saved his life. Tell me about that story.
BITTON (through translator): In 2004, I saved Sinwar's life in prison. I was the doctor who diagnosed the problem he had. When he explained to me
what was happening to him, I diagnosed it as a stroke. And together with a general practitioner, we decided to take him to the hospital.
He arrived at the hospital. The diagnosis was that he had abscess in the brain, and he was operated on that day, thus saving his life, because if it
had exploded, he would have died. He thanked me and the doctors for saving his life.
[13:05:00]
And he also asked the security officer, who was a Muslim, when we visited him in the hospital, to tell me in Arabic and explain to me what it means
for someone to save a Muslim's life. And that he owed me his life. He also told me that on the day he was released in the Gilad Shalitdeal in 2011,
that he owed me his life, and one day he will repay it.
And as you understand, he repaid it on October 7th, and that he was also directly responsible for the murder of my nephew in Kibbutz Nir Oz.
AMANPOUR: Your nephew went to try to save his family and others when the invasion happened and the massacres happened. And he was abducted and
apparently killed -- or he died of his wounds being dragged back into Gaza. Do you believe that had Sinwar known it was your nephew the outcome would
have been different?
BITTON (through translator): I did not and do not engage in speculation. My nephew came out to defend the community and the country and the Gaza
envelope. He fought in those terrible moments of the morning in Kibbutz Nir Oz. Hundreds of Nukhba terrorists infiltrated the kibbutz. They murdered,
raped, and slaughtered and burned 50 people from Nir Oz. 50 members of Kibbutz Nir Oz and 75 other members were kidnapped, including Tamir's
grandmother, Yafa Adar, the older woman on the scooter.
Tamir fought as an emergency squad member. He was seriously injured during his defense of the community. There were only five of them. They didn't
really stand a chance. And he was kidnapped while he was still seriously injured, unconscious, and died after a few hours in Gaza. So, it's
irrelevant what I think about what would have happened if.
AMANPOUR: OK. Just to be clear, the elderly lady, his grandmother, I believe was released in the first round during the negotiated release in
November. Can I ask you what you learned about Sinwar and Hamas in jail?
BITTON (through translator): I had many hours, hundreds of hours of conversation with Sinwar, both as a dentist and as an intelligence officer.
AMANPOUR: What impression did you get of his plans, of his goals?
BITTON (through translator): I learned from him and I learned from the other leaders, it was clear to me that Sinwar reflects the Hamas Gaza
worldview. Sinwar told me clearly in 2004 that they would be ready to sign a hudna, a truce, for 20 years because the State of Israel is currently a
strong state. But he also told me that in 20 years, he estimates that we will be weakened because of internal struggles between us within Israeli
society. And as soon as they recognize that we are weak, they will attack us.
And they also said clearly that we, as Jews, have no place on these lands, on the lands on which the State of Israel is located. These are Waqf lands.
These are Muslim lands. These are lands that do not belong to us. Therefore we, as Jews, have no right to exist on the lands. Therefore, there is no
compromise. There is no compromise on the 1967 borders or 1948 borders. It's either us or them.
Therefore, it's only a matter of time and timing that they will act against us and try to expel us from the place where we live. This is a worldview
that they did not hide. He told me that explicitly. But his way was much more extreme than others. His thought that this conflict can only be
resolved by force and the struggle they are waging against us, that Hamas is waging, is a religious struggle. The war is a religious war. It is not a
nationalist war. It is not about establishing a Palestinian State alongside the state of Israel, it's all Palestine. He only said this more bluntly
than other Hamas leaders in the West Bank.
AMANPOUR: Yuval, now, he, apparently, according to Israeli intelligence, I think, Sinwar is still somewhere in those tunnels in Gaza, still apparently
calling the shots nine months, eight months into this war. When you think about his mental state now and who he is, the person you know, what do you
think he's thinking about ceasefire, about anything, about releasing the hostages that still remain?
BITTON (through translator): I've made my opinion very clear for eight months, and at every stage of this war. I've made my opinion very clear.
And until today, I have unfortunately not been wrong about my assessments regarding Sinwar. I wish I was mistaken.
[13:10:00]
I was asked in the first few days of the war what Sinwar would demand in exchange for the hostages. It was clear to me that he would release the
women and children because of Hamas' interests, and not due to Israel's military pressure, because he was attacked by the entire world, and
especially by Qatar, which felt embarrassed.
And the moment that he released the women and children, and turned the pressure onto Israel, it was clear to me that the goal of this criminal and
murderous attack, in which women, children, and innocent civilians were murdered, raped and burned in their homes was to release Palestinian
prisoners. He stated this in 2011 when he was released during the Shalit deal.
He thought the Shalit deal was a bad deal, that Hamas should not have accepted. And he said the day he was released that the Shalit deal was a
bad deal. We will kidnap soldiers in order to release those we left behind and the success of the October 7th attacks caused a kidnapping of 240
Israeli civilians, some of whom were also soldiers.
And he brought on the IDF's response, which he did not expect, because he did not think he'd managed to kidnap 240 civilians and soldiers. He thought
he'd managed to get a number of soldiers, but didn't think the IDF would be left unprepared along the borders. If the main reason of the attack was to
release Palestinian prisoners, the IDF's response forced him to change his priorities.
And at the moment, since the day the IDF entered the Gaza Strip, his priority is to maintain his rule. He put the issue of releasing the
prisoners as a second priority. Now, the first priority is to maintain Hamas' rule. The condition for releasing the hostages will only be the
IDF's withdrawal from Gaza and the end of the war.
The hostages are being used to achieve his goals. Unfortunately, Israel made a mistake during its military operation, and in its thinking that only
military pressure would bring the release of hostages, which I said in the first month of the war, I thought a military effort was important in order
to dismantle Hamas, destroy it, and to hurt its military capabilities.
It's an important effort. But in order to return the hostages, it's not enough. Because Sinwar thinks only about the continuity of his rule. He is
willing to sacrifice even 100,000 Palestinians in order to ensure the survival of his rule. He is willing to pay with the lives of militants,
Hamas members, civilians. He doesn't care.
And therefore, Israel's mistake is that it did not create an alternative to Hamas' rule and didn't replace Hamas' rule and didn't allow an improved
version of the Fatah or Palestinian Authority forces to enter in order to make clear to Sinwar that he has lost everything, both his military
capability but mostly, his authority in Gaza that would have caused Sinwar to make a deal to return our hostages in exchange for prisoners.
Today, he feels he is in a powerful position. He is running the negotiations while still operating from within Gaza and still controls the
areas from which the IDF evacuated. He also controls the humanitarian aid, and therefore, he feels strong and won't sign an agreement to release the
hostages unless the IDF withdraws from Gaza and the fighting ends.
AMANPOUR: Yuval, you've just said that the Israeli government has made a mistake strategically by not providing for alternate Palestinian governance
inside Gaza as they go after Hamas. When you were a prison dentist, and when you were able to see Hamas, Fatah, all these different prisoners, what
was the difference between those sides that you noticed?
BITTON (through translator): Israel should have agreed to the Biden plan, which talks about the creation of a strategic access which would change the
Middle East, an access including the moderate Arab states led by Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Egypt, Jordan, sponsored by the United States, that
would sponsor a Palestinian force associated with the Palestinian Authority and Fatah, that would enter the Gaza Strip. And in every place the IDF
evacuates, a civil authority would take its place, run by the Palestinian Authority which would enforce its rule and monitor it.
This mistake of not accepting Biden's plan enabled Sinwar to be the only player in the arena. With one hand, we applied military force and
dismantled them. And with the other hand, we have continued to enable Hamas' rule.
[13:15:00]
When I worked in the prison system, in 2007, Hamas violently overthrew Fatah, murdered hundreds of their people, threw them off roofs, if not
thousands. Some of them they tied to cars and drove them through the streets of Gaza until they died. Some of them were beheaded. Then Fatah
understood that its greatest enemy was Hamas and not Israel. It was then that Fatah understood that Hamas waves the green flag, the flag of Islam,
and not the Palestinian flag. That Hamas' struggle is not the same as Fatah's struggle.
Fatah talks about two states for two nations. Fatah talks about some sort of compromise within the 1967 or 1948 borders. Hamas is fighting a
religious war against the State of Israel. What Hamas did to Fatah in 2007, who are his brothers, they're Muslims, if he did that to Muslims, what will
they do to the Jews when they could?
In 2007, in prison, the Fatah leadership came to us, the intelligence officers, and demanded and requested of us to remove all of the Hamas
prisoners from the Fatah quarters, otherwise they will murder them. They told us, the intelligence officers and the Israeli commanders, that they
don't see Hamas as part of their struggle against Israel. They see them as traitors and enemies.
And since then, in the West Bank, Fatah is waging an all-out war against Hamas. Not because of their love for Israel, but because they suspect they
could lose control of the West Bank as they did in Gaza. And because they fear that Hamas could rise up in the West Bank as they did in Gaza.
Hamas only sees one way, a Muslim state, a Muslim caliphate, and if the Fatah gets in its way, it will harm Fatah too. Therefore, it was obvious
that we should have exploited this, the same way we did in prison, but outside as well.
Sinwar is most afraid of a scenario in which Fatah would control Gaza and not Israeli control, because Israel is an enemy in the eyes of the
Palestinians. So, he will always be able to draft people against Israel in order to conduct guerrilla warfare. But up against Fatah, it will be more
difficult because the Fatah is part of its own nation.
AMANPOUR: Final question, you say that Sinwar and the other Palestinians learned a lot about Israel, they learned Hebrew, they learned about society
while they were in prison. You learned something about Hamas, but did the government, did the Israeli security, intelligence, society learn anything
about Hamas?
BITTON (through translator): Unfortunately, the Israeli leadership did not study Hamas, and a lot of people among us, even in the intelligence
service, did not know and learn Hamas well enough. All we needed to do was listen to them. Our attitude towards Hamas was arrogant. We dismissed
Hamas. And Hamas said everything it intended to do but we didn't want to listen. This is one thing.
The second thing is there was a wrong conception. The conception with which we acted towards Hamas was wrong. Israel should have toppled Hamas in many
opportunities. Since 2007, when Hamas came into power in Gaza, we should have toppled it. Hamas rule had to be toppled. And each time we didn't do
it, we got an even stronger Hamas, strengthening its rule of Gaza and armoring itself for 2023.
The mistake was to differentiate between Gaza and the West Bank, between Hamas and Fatah. It served Hamas. It didn't serve us. We thought that we
could isolate Hamas, that we had the technological means to keep Hamas inside the borders of Gaza, and we will have intelligence to alert the
enemy's intention to hurt us and that we would be prepared for it ahead of time.
I think we established our intelligence too much on technology and less on human intelligence. And human intelligence could have recognized better the
intention of the enemy, the intention of Hamas to do this criminal raid, and we could have known about it in advance, and we wouldn't have found
ourselves surprised.
So, our conception collapsed. Also, the strengthening of Hamas with Qatari money was a mistake. We made many mistakes, because our leaders and IDF and
intelligence members were wrong about their conception or their understanding of Hamas.
AMANPOUR: Yuval Bitton, thank you very much indeed for your information and your insight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And it really is extraordinary perspective, given what we've just reported that the chief IDF spokesman has agreed with some of this now
publicly in an Israeli TV interview. And we have seen that key members of the so-called war cabinet, before it was dissolved, actually resigned
because of some of this kind of perspective and information and seeing that the war was not achieving the maximalist goals that Netanyahu and his
right-wing coalition had set.
[13:20:00]
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