ELAINE QUIJANO IS A REPORTER GODDESS! I really admire her determination to maintain control of this debate in spite of the "enthusiasm" of Tim Kaine and mike pence.
FACT CHECK: Vice Presidential Debate
Vice presidential candidates Tim Kaine and Mike Pence debate Tuesday night in their only official matchup of the election season.
NPR's politics team, with help from reporters and editors who cover national security, immigration, business, foreign policy and more, is live annotating the debate starting at 9 p.m. ET. Portions of the debate with added analysis are underlined in yellow, followed by context and fact checks.
Note: The transcript on this page will be updated live as the debate proceeds. Jump to the bottom for the latest updates.
RANSCRIPT
Last updated: 11:54 PM ET 65 Annotations
ELAINE QUIJANO
Good evening. From Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia and welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2016, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. I'm Elaine Quijano, anchor at CBSN and and correspondent for CBS News. It’s an honor to moderate this debate between Senator Tim Kaine and Governor Mike Pence. Both are longtime public servants who are also proud fathers of sons serving in the U.S. Marines. The campaigns have agreed to the rules of this ninety minute debate. There will be nine different segments covering domestic and foreign policy issues. Each segment will begin with a question to both candidates who will each have two minutes to answer. Then I'll ask follow-up questions to facilitate a discussion between the candidates. By coin toss, it’s been determined that Senator Kaine will be first to answer the opening question. We have an enthusiastic audience tonight. They've agreed to only express that enthusiasm once at the end of the debate and right now as we welcome Governor Mike Pence and Senator Tim Kaine.
(APPLAUSE)
ELAINE QUIJANO
Gentlemen, welcome. It truly is a privilege to be with both of you tonight. I’d like to start with the topic of presidential leadership. Twenty eight years ago tomorrow night, Lloyd Benson said the vice presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice presidency but about how, if tragedy should occur, the vice president has to step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation, to take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world. What about your qualities, your skills and your temperament equip you to step into that role at a moment’s notice? Senator Kaine.
TIM KAINE
Elaine, thank you for being here tonight, and Governor Pence, welcome. It is so great to be back at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia. This is a very special place. Sixty five years ago, a young courageous woman, Barbara Johns, led a walkout of her high school, Moton High School. She made history by protesting school segregation.
Leading up to the debate, there were a couple of interesting articles about the history of racial segregation in Farmville. Kaine’s father-in-law, Linwood Holton, was the governor of Virginia who integrated the schools, but it didn’t go smoothly in Farmville. Here’s a piece from the New York Times, and one from the Washington Post.
She believed our nation was stronger together. And that walkout led to the Brown versus Board of Education decision that moved us down the path toward equality. I am so proud to be running with another strong, history-making woman, Hillary Clinton, to be president of the United States. I'm proud because her vision of stronger together, building an economy that works for all, not just those at the top, being safe in the world, not only with a strong military but also strong alliances to battle terrorism and climate change. And also to build a community of respect, just like Barbara Johns tried to do sixty-five years ago. That's why I'm so proud to be her running mate.
Hillary told me why she asked me to be her running mate. She said the test a Clinton administration will not be the signing of a bill or the passage of the bill. It'll be whether we can make somebody's life better, whether we can make a classroom better learning environment for school kids or teachers, whether we can make us safer -- it’s going to be about results. And she said to me, you've been a missionary and a civil rights lawyer. You’ve been a city councilman and mayor. You been a lieutenant governor and governor and now a U.S. senator. I think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation so that we always keep in mind that the success of the administration is the difference we make in people's lives. And that's what I bring to the ticket. That experience, having served in all levels of government. My primary role is to be Hillary Clinton's right-hand person and strong supporter as she puts together the most historic administration possible. And I relish that role. I’m so proud of her. I’ll just say this, we trust Hillary Clinton, my wife and I. And we trust her with the most important thing in our life. We have a son deployed overseas in the Marine Corps right now. We trust Hillary Clinton as president and commander-in-chief. But the thought of Donald Trump as commander in chief scares us to death.
Both Pence and Kaine have sons serving in the Marines. Kaine’s son, Nathaniel, joined the Marines in 2012 and trained in North Carolina to deploy to Eastern Europe. Pence’s son, Michael, is in flight school in Florida. He graduated from Officer Candidate School in 2015.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Of an
MIKE PENCE
Well, first off, thank you, Elaine, and thank you to Norwood University for the wonderful hospitality and the Commission on Presidential Debates.
Pence thanked “Norwood University” for hosting the debate. It is Longwood University.
Is deeply humbling for me to be here. To be surrounded by my wonderful family and Senator Kaine, it is is an honor to be here with you as well. And I just -- I also want to say -- thanks to everyone that is looking in tonight, who understands what an enormously important time this is in the life of our nation. For the last seven and a half years, we've seen America's place in the world weakened. We’ve seen an economy stifled by more taxes, more regulation, a war on coal and a failing health care reform come to be known as Obamacare.
Under the Bush administration, the top tax rate was 35 percent. Under the Obama administration, the wealthiest Americans are paying more, with a top rate of 39.6 percent.
About 20 million people have health insurance because of the Affordable Care Act, including about 10 million who buy insurance through Obamacare exchanges, and millions more who are covered by an expanded Medicaid program. However, many people say the premiums are too high and the only people who can afford it are those who get generous government subsidies. And many insurance companies have withdrawn from the program because they are losing money.
The American people know that we need a change. And so I want to thank all of you for being with us tonight. I also want to thank Donald Trump for making that call and inviting us to be a part of his ticket.
I have to tell you, I'm a small town boy from a place not too different from Farmville. I grew up with a cornfield in my backyard. My grandfather had immigrated to this country when he was about my son's age. My mom and dad built everything that matters in a small town in southern Indiana. They built a family and a good name, and a business. And they raised a family. I dreamed some day of representing my hometown in Washington D.C., but honestly, Elaine, I never imagined, never imagined I would have the opportunity to be governor of the state that I love let alone, let alone sitting at a table like this, in this kind of position. So to answer your question, I would say I would hope that if the responsibility ever fell to me in this role, that I would meet it with the way that I'm going to be the responsibility, should I be elected Vice President of the United States, and that’s to bring a lifetime of experience, a lifetime growing up in a small town, and lifetime where I’ve served in the Congress of the United States, where I lead a state that works in the great state of Indiana and whatever other possibility that follow from this. I would hope and frankly I would pray to be able to meet that moment with that lifetime of experience.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Senator Kaine, on the campaign trail you’ve praised Secretary Clinton's character, including her commitment to public service. Yet sixty percent of voters don't think she's trustworthy. Why do so many people distrust her? Into because there are questions about her e-mails and the Clinton Foundation?
This has been one of Clinton’s weakest spots in polls. Only 41 percent of likely voters in a recent CNN poll said Clinton was more trustworthy than Trump, who came in slightly higher, at 45. She came out slightly ahead of Trump in terms of favorability, with 43 percent of voters seeing her favorably, compared with 39 percent who said the same of Trump.
TIM KAINE
Elaine, let me tell you why I trust Hillary Clinton. Here’s what people should look at as they look at a public servant. Do they have a passion in their life that showed up before they were in public life? And have they held onto that passion throughout their life, regardless of whether they were in office are not, succeeding or failing? To Clinton have a passion. From a time as an advocate in the Methodist youth group in the suburbs of Chicago, she has been focused on serving others with a special focus on empowering families and kids. As a civil rights lawyer in the South with the children's Defense fund, First Lady of Arkansas and this country, Senator -- Secretary of State, is also always been about putting others first, and that’s a sharp contrast with Donald Trump. Donald Trump always puts himself first. He built a business career -- in the words of one of his campaign staffers, on the back the little guy. And as a candidate, he started his campaign with a speech where he called Mexicans rapists and criminals. And he has pursued the discredited and really outrageous lies that the Obama wasn't born in the United States. It is so painful to suggest that we go back to think about these days where an African-American could not be a citizen of United States. And I can't imagine how Governor Pence can defend the insult driven selfish me-for-style of Donald Trump.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor Pence, let me ask you. You have said Donald Trump is “thoughtful, compassionate and steady.” Yet 67 percent of voters feel he is a risky choice and 65 percent feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president. Why do so many Americans think Mr. Trump is simply too erratic?
MIKE PENCE
Let me say first and foremost, that Senator, you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. It really is remarkable. At a time when literally -- in the wake of Hillary Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, where she was the architect of the Obama administration's foreign policy, we see entire portions of the world, particularly the wider Middle East, literally spinning out of control.
Clinton was a leading advocate for the 2011 military intervention in Libya, which Obama has since called the biggest mistake of his presidency. Clinton also was an early supporter of arming the so-called moderate rebels fighting the government of Syria — a policy Obama ultimately adopted later, even though he opted not to launch a conventional military attack against Syria’s President Bashar Assad.
The situation we’re watching hour by hour in Syria today, is a result of the failed foreign policy and the weak foreign policy that Hillary Clinton held lead in this administration and create. The newly emboldened aggression of Russia, and it was in Ukraine or --
The war in Syria began as an uprising against Bashar Assad’s regime and was not the result of any U.S. policy. Clinton did warn autocratic leaders before the so-called Arab Spring, however, that the region’s foundations were “sinking into the sand.”
TIM KAINE
You gotta be --
MIKE PENCE
Their heavy-handed approach...
TIM KAINE
You both have said Vladimir Putin is --
ELAINE QUIJANO
We will get to Russia in just a moment. But I do want to get back to -
MIKE PENCE
Thank you -
TIM KAINE
You praised -- these guys have praised Vladimir Putin as a great leader -
ELAINE QUIJANO
Yes Senator, we will get to that. In the meantime, the question is on running mates.
MIKE PENCE
I must've hit a nerve here because at a time of great challenge in the life of this nation, where we’ve weakened America's place in the world, stifled America’s economy, the campaign of Hillary Clinton and Tim Kane has been an avalanche of insults. Look, to get to your question on trustworthiness, Donald Trump has built a business through hard times and through good times. He’s brought an extraordinary business acumen. He’s employed tens of thousands of people in this country.
TIM KAINE
And paid a few taxes and lost a billion dollars a year.
ELAINE QUIJANO
But why the disconnect with your running mates?
MIKE PENCE
There's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton and that’s because they’re paying attention. The reality is that when she was Secretary of State, Senator, come on, she had a Clinton Foundation accepting contributions from foreign governments.
TIM KAINE
You are Donald Trump’s apprentice - let me talk about -
MIKE PENCE
I think I’m still on my time.
(CROSSTALK)
MIKE PENCE
TIM KAINE
Isn’t this a discussion?
ELAINE QUIJANO
She had a have an opportunity --
TIM KAINE
Finish your sentence.
MIKE PENCE
Note do you?
TIM KAINE
Governor Pence doesn’t think the world is going so well and he’s going to say it’s everybody’s fault.
MIKE PENCE
Do you?
TIM KAINE
Let me tell you this. When Hillary Clinton became secretary of state, Governor Pence, do you know that Osama bin Laden was alive?
MIKE PENCE
Yes.
TIM KAINE
Did you know that we had a hundred and seventy five thousand troops deployed in the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you know that Iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and that Russia was expanding its stockpile? Under Secretary Clinton's leadership, she was part of the national team, public safety team, that went after and revived the dormant hunt against bin Laden and wiped them off the face of the earth. She worked a deal with the Russians to reduce their chemical weapons stockpile. She worked a tough negotiation with nations around the world to eliminate the Iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot.
The Iran nuclear deal was reached in July 2015. Hillary Clinton was not serving in the government. The deal slowed but does not eliminate Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Iran agreed to eliminate its stockpile of medium enriched uranium, to dramatically cut its stockpile of low enriched uranium, and to allow international inspectors to visit nuclear facilities — in exchange for relief from sanctions.
MIKE PENCE
Eliminate the Iranian nuclear weapons program.
TIM KAINE
Absolutely, without firing a shot. And instead of seventy five thousand of our troops are deployed overseas we now have fifty thousand. These are very good very good things.
MIKE PENCE
And Iraq has been overrun by ISIS because Hillary Clinton failed to renegotiate.
TIM KAINE
If you want to send more American troops -
MIKE PENCE
Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, failed to negotiate a status of forces agreement.
TIM KAINE
No that is incorrect.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Gentlemen, we’ll get to this issues in just a moment.
TIM KAINE
But I would like to correct -
MIKE PENCE
An overrun vast areas -
TIM KAINE
President Bush said we would leave Iraq at the end of 2011 and Elaine, Iraq did not want our troops to stay and they would not give us the protection for our troops. And guess what? If a nation where our troops are serving does not want us to say, we're not going to stay.
Bush did negotiate the conclusion of the American military presence in Iraq, but critics in 2011 faulted Obama for not working harder to secure an agreement with Baghdad to leave behind a residual force in Iraq. The administration cited Baghdad’s refusal to agree to a “Status of Forces Agreement” covering the laws governing U.S. troops in the country. The withdrawal of those U.S. combat troops, critics charge, created a security vacuum that contributed to the rise of the Islamic State. And when American forces began returning to Iraq after ISIS’s battlefield victories in 2014, they did so without a formal Status of Forces Agreement. Washington and Baghdad said at the time that existing diplomatic agreements were sufficient. Today there are more than 5,000 American troops deployed to Iraq and Syria.
MIKE PENCE
It was a failure of the Secretary of State.
ELAINE QUIJANO
We need to move on gentleman. There are a lot of people in this country wondering about the economy. Let’s turn to the issue of the economy. According to the nonpartisan committee for responsible federal budget neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing 19 trillion dollar national debt. In fact, both your plans would add even more to it. Both of you were governors who balanced state budgets. Are you concerned that adding more debt to the debt could be disastrous for the country? Governor Pence.
MIKE PENCE
I think the fact that the under this past administration of which Hillary Clinton was a part, we’ve almost doubled the national debt is atrocious. I mean I'm very proud of the fact that I come from a state that works. The state of Indiana has balanced budgets. We cut taxes we’ve made record investments in education and in infrastructure. I still finished my term of two million dollars in the bank. That's a little bit different than when Senator Kaine was governor here in Virginia. He actually tried to raise to raise taxes by about four billion dollars. He left his state about two billion dollars in the hole. In the state of Indiana we have cut unemployment in half. Unemployment doubled when he was governor. But I think he is a very fitting running mate for Hillary Clinton because in the wake of this season where American families are struggling in this economy under the weight of higher taxes and Obamacare and the war on coal and stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this administration, Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want more of the same. It really is a remarkable. They actually are advocating a trillion dollars in tax increases which I get that, you try to raise taxes here in Virginia were unsuccessful. But a trillion dollars in tax increases, more regulation, more of the same war on coal and even more Obamacare that now even former President Bill Clinton calls Obamacare a crazy plan. But Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to build on Obamacare. They want to expand it into a single payer program and for all the world HIllary Clinton just think Obamacare is a good start.
Bill Clinton did call Obamacare “the craziest thing in the world” on Monday evening in a speech in Flint, Mich. He tried to walk it back Tuesday by explaining that it “did a world of good” for the tens of millions who gained health coverage. But he did not back off the idea that small-business owners and employees who make too much to qualify for subsidies have been left behind. Hillary Clinton’s position is that the Affordable Care Act needs to be expanded and revised to correct problems since it was enacted six years ago.
That Clinton and Senator wanted build on Obama care. Want expanded to a single-parent program and Clinton thinks Obama cares of start. Donald Trump and I have a plan to get this economy moving again, just the way it worked in the nineteen eighties just the way it worked in the nineteen sixties. And that is by lowering taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms. Ending the war on coal hat is hurting jobs and earnings economy here in Virginia. A repealing Obamacare lock stock and barrel.
Trump’s health care plan calls for repealing Obamacare and replacing it with health savings accounts. These accounts allow people to put money aside tax-free to pay for health care costs. He also calls for so-called high risk pools, which are designed to lower costs for people who have pre-existing medical conditions. He does not say what would happen to those who are already covered under Obamacare and pay for it with government subsidies.
And repealing all of the executive orders that Barack Obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this economy.
The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, an international economic organization, evaluated the U.S. economy this summer and concluded: “Seven years after the financial crisis, the US economy has rebounded: output has surpassed its pre-crisis peak by 10%, robust private-sector employment gains have sharply reduced unemployment, fiscal sustainability has been largely restored and corporate profits are high.”
Comparing the economic records of Tim Kaine and Mike Pence as governors is not so much apples and oranges but apples during a bountiful harvest and apples during a deep drought.
Kaine’s tenure in the Virginia governor’s office coincided with the worst recession since the Great Depression. When he became governor in January 2006, unemployment in Virginia was 3.2 percent (1.5 below national average). When he left the governor’s office in January 2010, unemployment in Virginia was 7.4 percent (2.4 below national average).
Kaine boasts of cutting government spending by $5 billion. According to PolitiFact, he actually cut about $4.6 billion, with some of those cuts taking effect after Kaine left office.
In his final budget proposal in late 2009, Kaine proposed a 1 percent income tax surcharge, with proceeds going to local governments in exchange for eliminating the state’s car tax.The plan would have also saved the state government $950 million a year — money Kaine wanted to patch a hole in the state budget. PolitiFact calculated that swapping the income tax surcharge for the car tax would have saved money for some car owners, but most would have ended up paying more. The proposal was rejected by the state General Assembly. Kaine also proposed taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, but those were rejected by Republican lawmakers. While governor, Kaine pushed through an income tax cut for low-income families and signed a repeal of the state’s estate tax.
Pence’s tenure in the Indiana governor’s office coincided with a gradual recovery from the Great Recession. When he became governor in January 2013, unemployment in Indiana was 8.4 percent (0.4 above national average). In August, unemployment in Indiana was 4.5 percent (0.4 below national average).
During Pence’s time as governor, Indiana has cut state income taxes and business taxes and eliminated the state’s estate tax.
We can get America moving again put on top of that the kind of trade deals that will put the American worker force and you got a prescription for real growth. When you get the economy growing Elaine is when you can do with the national debt. When we get back to three and a half to four percent growth - which Donald Trump’s will do - then we’ll have the resources to meet our nations needs.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Senator Kaine.
TIM KAINE
Elaine, on the economy, there’s a fundamental choice for the American electorate. Do you want a you’re hired President in Hillary Clinton, or do you want a you’re fired president in Donald Trump?
This is a line Kaine has been using since the first rally he and Clinton held together in Northern Virginia in early July. That rally was his audition, and that line seems to have stuck.
I think that is not such a hard choice. Hillary and I have a plan that is on the table that is a you’re hired plan. Five components -- first thing we do is we invest in manufacturing and infrastructure and research into clean energy jobs of tomorrow. Second thing is we invest in our workforce. From pre-k education to great teachers to debt-free college and tuition free college for families that make less than a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year. Third, we promote fairness by raising the minimum wage so you can't work full-time and be under the poverty level. And by paying women equal pay for equal work. Fourth, we promote small business growth just we have done in Virginia to make it easier to start and grow small businesses. Hillary and I each grew up in small business families. My dad who ran a iron working and welding shop is here tonight. Fifth we have a tax plan that targets tax relief to middle-class individuals and small businesses and ask those at the very top who benefit as we come out the recession to pay more. The Trump plan is a different plan, it’s a you’re fired plan. Two key elements to it -- first on Trump said wages are too high.
The federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour has not been increased by Congress since 2009.
Trump said in a November 2015 debate that wages were too high, though he has espoused different positions since then, which PolitiFact ruled a “full flop.”
Both Donald Trump and Mike Pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. Pence, when he was in Congress voted against raising the minimum wage above five dollars and fifteen cents. He has been a one-man bulwark against minimum wage increases in Indiana. The second component of the plan 's massive tax breaks to the very top. Trillions of dollars of tax breaks are people just like Donald Trump.
Trump wants to cut income tax rates while capping deductions for the wealthy. He would also reduce the business tax rate to 15 percent and eliminate the estate tax. The conservative Tax Foundation estimates that his plan would reduce federal revenue by $4.4 trillion to $5.9 trillion over the next decade, which is a lot, but down from $10 trillion in his original plan. Some of that could be offset by economic growth, but even using “dynamic scoring,” the foundation says the plan cuts tax revenue by $2.6 trillion to $3.9 trillion over 10 years. (The higher figure is if the 15 percent business tax rate is applied to “pass through” entities.) The biggest beneficiaries of Trump’s tax cuts are the wealthy. The top 1 percent of earners see their after-tax income rise by between 10.2 percent and 16 percent. Overall savings would be less than 1 percent.
Clinton would raise taxes on the wealthy — especially those making more than $5 million per year (2/10,000 people) — limit value of certain deductions, and increase the estate tax rate, while extending that tax to more families (with thresholds set at $3.5 million/$7 million for couples). The Tax Policy Center estimated that an earlier version of her plan would raise an extra $1.1 trillion over a decade, with three-quarters of that coming from the top 1 percent. Last month, Clinton modified her estate tax proposal, raising the top rate to 65 percent on estates of more than $500 million.
The problem Elaine, is that is exactly what we did ten years ago and it let the economy into the deepest recession in the since the nineteen thirties. Independent analysts say the Clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5million jobs the Trump plan would cost 3.5 million jobs. Donald Trump -- why would he do this? Because his tax plan basically helps him and if he ever met his promise to give his tax returns to the American public like he said he would we would see just how much his economic plan is really a Trump first plan.
ELAINE QUIJANO
On that point, Governor Pence, New York Times was part of 1995 tax return and reported he could've avoided paying federal income taxes for years. Yesterday, Mr. Trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. Does that seem fair to you?
MIKE PENCE
Well, first let me say I appreciateed your hired your fired thing, Senator.You use that a whole lot and I think you're running mate use a lot of predone lines.
That’s true. Kaine does use it a lot.
What you all just heard out there is more taxes two trillion dollars in more spending and deficits more debt more government. And if you think that's all working then you look at the other side of the table. The truth of the matter is policies this administration, which Hillary Clinton and Senator Kane want to continue, have one for this economy to ditch. We’re in the slowest economic recovery since the great depression. There are millions more people living in poverty today than the day that Barack Obama with Hillary Clinton at his side stepped into the Oval Office.
TIM KAINE
And the poverty level and the median income improved dramatically between 2014-2015.
Private sector employers have added 15.1 million jobs since the trough of the recession in 2010. Unemployment, which peaked at 10 percent in October of 2009, has fallen to 4.9 percent. Unemployment among African-Americans, which peaked at 16.8 percent in March 2010, has fallen to 8.1 percent.
Last month, we got the news that median family income finally rose last year by 5.2 percent, the first real increase since the Great Recession. Adjusting for inflation, the median is still slightly below the pre-recession peak of 2007, and below the all-time high, which was reached in 1999. All races saw gains last year, with Hispanics seeing a 6.1 percent increase, whites 4.4 percent, and African-Americans 4.1 percent.
MIKE PENCE
Honestly, Senator, you can roll out the numbers and the sunny side, but I got it tell you people in Scranton know different. People in Fort Wayne, Indiana know different.
This economy is struggling. The answer to this economy is not more taxes but it --
TIM KAINE
But it’s not to give away tax relief to those at the top. I am interested to hear him defend his running mate not releasing his taxes.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor, with all due respect, the question was about whether it seems fair to you that Mr. Trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little taxes as possible.
MIKE PENCE
This is probably the difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton and Senator Kaine. Hillary Clinton and Senator Kaine, and God bless you for it, career public servants, that’s great. Donald Trump is a businessman. Not a career politician. He actually built a business. Those tax returns that were -- came out publicly this week - showed that he made some pretty tough times twenty years ago. But like virtually every other business, including the New York Times not too long ago, he used what he used what’s called net operating loss. We have a tax code,Senator, that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship.
TIM KAINE
But why won’t he actually release his tax returns?
MIKE PENCE
We’re answering the question about the business thing.
TIM KAINE
I do want to come back on this but -
MIKE PENCE
His tax returns showed he went through a very difficult time but he used the tax code just the way it’s supposed to be used and he used it brilliantly.
TIM KAINE
How do you know that? You haven’t seen his tax returns?
MIKE PENCE
Because he has worth billions of dollars today.
Trump’s net worth is not clear because he has refused to release his tax returns. Forbes magazine estimates his wealth at $3.7 billion, but others who have studied his business operations believe his wealth is a fraction of that, perhaps $150 million to $250 million.
TIM KAINE
How do you know that?
MIKE PENCE
Paying taxes this taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years Donald Trump has created tens of thousands of jobs and he’s paid payroll taxes, property taxes....
ELAINE QUIJANO
Senator, I'm going to be about thirty seconds to respond and then I have a question about social security.
TIM KAINE
Elaine, Donald Trump started this campaign in 2014. He said if he runs for president he’ll release his taxes. Second, he stood on the stage last week and when Hillary said you have been paying taxes he said that makes me smart. So it’s smart not to pay for our military. It's smart not to pay for veterans. It’s smart not to pay for teachers. And I guess all of us who do pay for those things I guess we're stupid.
MIKE PENCE
Senator, do you take all the deductions that you are entitled to?
TIM KAINE
The last thing I want to ask Governor Pence is Governor Pence had to give his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president. Donald Trump must give the American public his tax returns to show that he is qualified to be president. And he is breaking his promise.
While Donald Trump has refused to release his tax returns, breaking with tradition of four decades, his running mate, Mike Pence, released 10 years’ worth of tax returns in September. Pence and his wife, Karen, earned $113,000 last year. Nearly all of that is from Pence’s salary as governor. They paid about 8 percent in federal taxes and gave about 8 percent to charity.
MIKE PENCE
Elaine, I have to respond to this.
ELAINE QUIJANO
You get very little time.
MIKE PENCE
I’ll be very respectful. Look, Donald Trump has filed over 100 pages of finance disclosure which is what the law requires. The American people can review that and he is going, Senator, he is going to release his tax returns when the audit is over The people they're going to raise your tax returns if you can meet.
TIM KAINE
Richard Nixon released his tax returns when he was under audit -
ELAINE QUIJANO
Gentlemen - the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other. I would please ask you to wait until it is the other is finished.
Senator Kaine - on the issue of social security. In eighteen years, when the Social Security trust funds run out of money, you will be seventy six. The committee for a responsible federal budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as seventy five hundred dollars per year. What would your administration do to prevent this cut?
TIM KAINE
First, we are going to protect Social Security which is one of the greatest programs that the American government has ever done. It happened at a time when you would work your whole life raising your kids, working in a Little League coach or a Sunday school teacher and then you would retire into poverty. And Social Security has enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not be poverty. We have to keep it solvent and we will keep it solvent. And we will look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap upward in order to do that. Here’s what I want to make this very plain. We will never ever engage in a risky scheme to privatize Social Security. Donald Trump wrote a book and he said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us.
Donald Trump did liken Social Security to a Ponzi scheme in a 2000 book. He did it this way, per BuzzFeed, which posted on this a year ago: “Fast-forward to 1941. This is the second year Social Security benefits have been paid. … The first recipients of Social Security, even once inflation was factored in, got the equivalent of a 36.5 percent annual interest rate on their initial contributions into the Social Security Trust Fund. For those retiring in 1956, their inflation-adjusted rate of return was still a respectable 12 percent. Julie Kosterlitz, in National Journal, compares that figure with this: ‘For those who are working now and looking to retire after 2015, their returns will be below 2 percent. And that’s if they ever get paid at all. Does the name Ponzi all of a sudden come to mind?’ ”
Trump advocated for raising the age limit to 70 (for those under 40) and for privatization. “Privatization would be good for all of us,” he wrote, adding, “On average, personal accounts would have provided a single woman with 58 percent more than Social Security, and wives with 208 percent more. Directing Social Security funds into personal accounts invested in real assets would swell national savings, pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into jobs and the economy. These investments would boost national investment, productivity, wages, and future economic growth.”
And when Congressman Pence was in Congress he was the chief cheerleader for the privatization of Social Security. Even after President Bush stopped pushing for it, Congressman Pence kept pushing for it. We're going to stand up against efforts to privatize Social Security and we are looking for ways to keep it solvent going from focusing primarily on the payroll tax cap.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor Pence, I’ll give you an opportunity to respond.
MIKE PENCE
Thanks Elaine. There they go again. All Donald Trump and I have said is we will meet our obligations to our seniors. That’s it.
TIM KAINE
Go read the book.
MIKE PENCE
We're going to meet the obligations of Medicare. That is what this campaign is really about, Senator. And this is the old scare tactic that they roll out.
TIM KAINE
You have a voting record, Governor.
MIKE PENCE
And I get all of you absolutely
TIM KAINE
I can’t believe you won’t defend your own voting record.
MIKE PENCE
I have to go back to it. You’re running with Hillary Clinton who wants to raise taxes by a trillion dollars, increase spending by two trillions dollars and you say you're going to keep the promises of Social Security. Donald Trump and I are going to cut taxes.
TIM KAINE
You’re not going to cut taxes. You’re going to raise -
MIKE PENCE
We will meet the obligations of Social Security and Medicare. If we stay on the path that your party has us on, we’re going to be in a mountain range of debt and we’re going to face hard choices -
ELAINE QUIJANO
Gentlemen, I want to move on.
TIM KAINE
And the debt explosion on the Trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the Clinton side.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Okay let me move on to the issue of law enforcement and race relations. After the Dallas police shooting, police chief David Brown, said, "We are asking cops to do too much in this country. Every societal failure we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding, not enough drug addict funding, schools fail let's give it to the cops. Do we asked too much of police officers in this country and how would you specifically address the chief concerns. Senator Kane?
TIM KAINE
Elaine I think that’s a very fair comment. We put a lot on police shoulders and this is something that I got a lot of scar tissue and experience on. councilman and mayor Richmond and when I came in with one of the highest homicide rates in the United States. We fought very very hard over the course of my time in local office with our Police Department and we reduced our homicide right nearly half. And when I was governor of Virginia we worked hard too. And we did something we had really wanted to do the cracked the top ten the ten safest states because we work together. Here's what I learned as a mayor and governor. The way you make communities safer and the way you make police safer is through community policing. You build the bonds between the community and the police force. Build bonds of understanding and then when people feel comfortable in their communities that gap between the police and the communities they serve narrows. And when that gap narrows, it’s safer for the communities and it safer for the police.
Clinton and Kaine want to devote $1 billion of their first federal budget toward better training and officer safety. They have talked often on the campaign trail about building bonds between police and minority communities, and Clinton recently spoke about wanting to pass a federal law that would ban racial profiling and to get local and federal authorities together to develop national standards for when law enforcement uses force.
That model still works across our country but there are some other models that don't work. An overly aggressive militarize model. Donald Trump recently said we need to do more to stop and frisk around the country. That would be a big mistake because it polarizes the relationship between the policing and the community. So here's what we’ll do. We will focus on community policing. And we’ll focus on...Hillary Clinton has rolled out a really comprehensive mental health reform package that she worked on with law enforcement professionals and we will also fight the gun violence in the United States. I'm a gun owner. I'm a strong Second Amendment supporter but I have a lot of scar tissue because when I was governor of Virginia there was a horrible shooting at Virginia Tech and we learned through that painful situation that gaps in the background record checks system should have been closed and it could've prevented that crime.
Kaine was governor of Virginia at the time of the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech in which 33 people were killed, including the gunman. He has consistently supported expanded background checks, including the Manchin-Toomey bill, which failed to get out of the Senate in 2013. Kaine is a gun owner himself and says he supports the Second Amendment, but he earns an F from the National Rifle Association.
Mike Pence has an A rating from the NRA. He has backed legislation granting immunity to gun manufacturers and supported a bill that would require states with strict gun laws to recognize “concealed carry” permits from states with more relaxed rules.
And we're going work to do things like close background record checks and if we do we won’t have the tragedies that we did. One of those killed at Virginia Tech was a guy named Liviu Librescu. He was a seventy plus year old Romanian Holocaust survivor. He survived the Holocaust and he survived the Soviet Union take over of his country but then he was a visiting professor at Virginia Tech and he couldn't survive the scourge of gun violence. We can support the Second Amendment and do things like background record checks and make us safer and they'll make police safer too.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor Pence.
MIKE PENCE
You know, my uncle was a cop. A career cop on the beat in downtown Chicago. He was my hero when I was growing up we would go to visit my dad's family in Chicago, my three brothers and I would marvel at my uncle when he would come out in his uniform, sidearm at his side. Police officers are the best of us. And the men and women - white and African American, Asian, Latino, Hispanic - they put their lives on the line every day single day. And let me say, you know at the risk of agreeing with you, I think community policing is a great idea. And it's worked in the Hoosier state and we fully support that. Donald Trump and I are going to make sure that law enforcement have the resources and the tools to be able to really restore law and order and to the cities and communities of this nation. That is probably why the 330,000 members of the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed Donald Trump to be the next President of the United States because they see his commitment to them. They see his commitment to law and order.
The Fraternal Order of Police union did recently endorse Trump. Clinton didn’t seek that endorsement. For more on what Trump and Pence mean when they say law and order, look at this NPR story.
While Trump has delivered mixed messages on policing, his running mate has tended to emphasize the idea of police officers as "good people." Law and order has been a major theme for Trump, a theme Pence is echoing. But Trump has also made statements sympathetic to African-American communities concerned about police overreach and expressing that he was "troubled" by recent killings of black men by police.
Just weeks ago, Trump reacted to such incidents by telling an audience near Cleveland that maybe police officers who "choke" shouldn't be in law enforcement. That same week, Pence delivered a speech in which he described police officers as "the best of us" and said there is too much talk of systemic racism in law enforcement.
But they also hear the bad mouthing that comes from people seize upon tragedy in the wake of police shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism and that really has got to stop. I mean, when an African-American police officer in Charlotte, name Brentley Vinson, an All-Star football player who went to Liberty University, here in the state, came home followed his dad into law enforcement joined the force in Charlotte in 2014 was involved in a police action shooting that claimed the life of Keith LaMont Scott it was a tragedy. I mean we mourn with those who mourn. We grieve with those who grieve we are saddened at the loss of life but Hillary Clinton actually referred to the moment as an example of implicit bias in the police force. Where she used her she was asked in the debate a week ago if there is implicit bias in law enforcement her only answer was there's an implicit bias in everyone in the United States.
This recent NPR story chronicles implicit bias in the classroom.
TIM KAINE
Can I explain?
MIKE PENCE
I just think we ought to stop seizing on these moments of tragedy. We got to ensure the public that will have a full and complete and transparent investigation whenever there's a loss of life because of police action. But Senator, please you know enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement probably by making of implicit bias every time tragedy strikes.
TIM KAINE
Elaine, people shouldn’t be afraid to bring up issues of bias in law enforcement. And if you're afraid
MIKE PENCE
I’m not afraid to bring that up -
TIM KAINE
If you’re afraid to have the discussion you'll never solve it. And so here's an example, heartbreaking, we would agree this is a heartbreaking example. The guy Philando Castile, who was killed in St. Paul, he was a worker, valued worker by local school and he was killed for no apparent reason in an incident that will be discussed and will be investigated. But when folks went and explored the situation what they found was that Philando Castile, they called him Mr. Rogers with dreadlocks the kids loved him, that he had been stopped by police forty or fifty times before that fatal incident.
NPR reported Castile was stopped nearly four dozen times while driving.
And if you look at sentencing in this country, African American and Latinos get sense for the same crimes for different rates.
MIKE PENCE
We need criminal justice reform. Indiana has passed criminal justice reform.
TIM KAINE
But I just want to say those who say we should not be able to bring up and talk about bias in the system, we will never solve the problem.
President Obama and Hillary Clinton have talked about sentencing disparities, particularly for drug crimes, as a major motivator for them to urge Congress to overhaul the federal sentencing laws.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Africans
MIKE PENCE
When an African-American police officer is involved in a police action shooting involving an African-American, why would Hillary Clinton accuse that African-American police officer of implicit bias?
TIM KAINE
I guess I can’t believe you are defending the position that there is no bias -
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor, Pence I have a question on that point.
Your fellow Republican, Sen. Tim Scott, who is African American, recently spoke on the Senate floor. He said he was stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year.
Tim Scott did say this. Here’s more from NPR.
TIM KAINE
A U.S. Senator.
ELAINE QUIJANO
He said I have felt the anger the frustration, the sadness, and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you're being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself. What would you say to Senator Scott about his experience?
MIKE PENCE
Well I have the deepest respect for Senator Scott and he’s a close friend. And what I would say is we need to adopt criminal justice reform nationally. I signed criminal justice reform in the state of Indiana, Senator, and we are very proud of it. I worked when I was in Congress on the Second Chance Act. We have got to do a better job recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that do reflect institutional bias in criminal justice.
Despite bipartisan support in both houses of Congress, federal efforts at sentencing reform have resulted in no action.
But what Donald Trump and I are saying is let's not have the reflex of assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. We truly do believe that law enforcement is not -
ELAINE QUIJANO
So would you would you say to Senator Scott, Governor?
MIKE PENCE
Law enforcement in this country is a force for good. They are the - they truly are people who put their lives on the line every single day. But I would suggest to you what we need to do is assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement.
Policing and crime are primarily a local and state issue, but the federal government can serve as a “bully pulpit” or offer financial incentives like grant funds to encourage locals to change behavior, undergo training or buy body cameras for police.
You just heard Senator Kane reject Stop and Frisk. I would suggest to you that the families that live in our inner city that are besieged in crime.
ELAINE QUIJANO
What would tell Senator Scott?
TIM KAINE
If I could jump in. I've heard Senator Scott make that eloquent plea and look, criminal justice is about respecting the law and being respected by the law. So there is a fundamental respect issue.
And I just want to talk about the tone that set from the top. Donald Trump has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He’s called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. I don’t like saying that in front of my wife and my mother. He attacked an Indiana-born federal judge and said he is unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were Mexican. He went after John McCain, a POW, and said he wasn't a hero because he been captured. He said African-Americans are living in hell and he perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lie that President Obama is not a U.S. citizen. If you want to have a society where people are respected and respect laws you can’t have somebody at the top who demeans everybody that he talks about and again I can't believe that Governor Pence will defend the insult-driven campaign that Donald Trump has run.
Kaine noted that Hillary Clinton apologized for the phrasing of her "basket of deplorables" comment. He then listed a litany of inflammatory statements Trump has made about women, minorities and other groups and asked when Trump has ever apologized.
The closest Trump has come to apologizing was in August, when he expressed "regret" for some of these comments, saying:
"Sometimes, in the heat of debate, and speaking on a multitude of issues, you don’t choose the right words or you say the wrong thing. I have done that, and believe it or not I regret it."
That was the same week he brought in Kellyanne Conway as his new campaign manager, a pollster whose job has been to fine-tune Trump's message and keep him on script.
ELAINE QUIJANO
I want to turn to our next segment now - immigration. Your running mates have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes should be deported. What would you tell the millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes. Governor Pence?
MIKE PENCE
Donald Trump has laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. We’ve been talking it to death for twenty years. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to continue the policies of open borders, amnesty, catch and release, sanctuary cities, all the things that are driving wages down in this country. that are driving wages down in this country And often with criminal aliens in the country, it is bringing heartbreak. But Donald Trump has a plan that he laid out in Arizona. That will deal systematically with illegal immigration beginning with border security, internal enforcement,It’s probably why for the first time in the history of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, their union actually endorsed Donald Trump as the next President of the United States because they know they need help to enforce the laws of this country.
The Border Patrol has doubled in size since Sept. 11 to more than 21,000. Trump has proposed adding about 5,000 more. The bipartisan Senate bill in 2013 would have gone further, to 38,000.
Meanwhile, apprehensions at the Southwest border — a proxy for attempted crossings — have dropped by 79 percent from the peak in 2000. The Pew Research Center reports more Mexicans left the U.S. than entered between 2009 and 2014.
Deportations increased during Obama’s first four years in office, peaking in 2012 at nearly 410,000. Since then, deportations have been dropping, reaching a low of 235,000 last year. Since 2014, the administration has focused on deporting recent arrivals and criminals, with fewer deportations of longtime residents whose only crime was crossing the border. In all, about 2.8 million people have been deported under Obama.
Nearly 1 in 5 visitors who overstay a visa is from Canada — more than twice the number from Mexico.
And Donald Trump has laid out a priority to remove criminal aliens, remove people who have overstayed their visas. And once we have accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy, strengthen our rule of law in the country, and make our communities safer once the criminal aliens are out, then we’ll deal with those that remain. But have to tell you I was just listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of Senator Kaine a minute ago.
TIM KAINE
These were Donald Trump - hold on
MIKE PENCE
It is my time Senator.
ELAINE QUIJANO
It is, in fact, the Governor’s time.
MIKE PENCE
I forgive you. He says ours is an insult-driven campaign? Dd you all just hear that? Ours is an insult driven campaign? And if Donald Trump had said all the things you said he said in the way you said he's said them he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables.
Trump literally did say all of those things Kaine listed above, and more. At a fundraiser, Clinton was describing Trump’s supporters and said you could put half in a basket of deplorables. For the full context, here’s a piece Domenico Montanaro wrote at the time.
She said they were irredeemable. They were not America. It’s extraordinary and then she laid one after the other -ism of millions of Americans who believe that we can have a stronger America at home and abroad. Who believe we can get this economy moving again. Who believe that we can end illegal immigration. So Senator this insult driven campaign I mean that's small potatoes compared to Hillary Clinton calling half of Donald Trump supporters a basket of deplorables.
TIM KAINE
Hillary Clinton said something on the campaign trail and the very next day she said you know what, I shouldn’t have said that.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Senator this
TIM KAINE
Now we’re even. Look for Donald Trump apologizing to John McCain for saying he wasn’t a hero. Did Donald Trump apologize for calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor, it is his two minutes, please.
TIM KAINE
Did Donald Trump apologize for going after taking after someone in a Twitter war and making fun of her weight that he apologize for saying African-Americans were living in hell? Did he apologize for saying President Obama is not even a citizen of the United States?
You will look in vain to see Donald Trump ever take responsibility for anybody and apologizing. Immigration. There’s two plans on the table. Hillary and I believe comprehensible immigration reform. Donald Trump believes the deportation nation. You have to pick your choice. Hillary and I want bipartisan reform that will put keeping families together as the top goal. Second that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent. Third that will do more border control and forth it will provide a path to citizenship for those who work hard, pay taxes, play by the rules and take criminal background record checks. That is our proposal. Donald Trump proposes to deport sixteen million people, eleven million people who are here without documents and both Donald Trump and Pence wants to get rid of birth-right citizenship. So if you’re born here, but your parents don't have documents they want to eliminate that, that’s another four and half million people. These guys and Donald Trump has said it: deportation force. They want to go house to house, school to school, business-to-business and kick out 16 million people and I cannot believe that Governor pence would sit here and defend his running mate's claim that we should create a deportation force is that they will all be gone.
MIKE PENCE
Senator we have a immigration and customs enforcement. And the unit for Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the first time in their history endorsed Donald Trump to be the next president of the United States.
The National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council in September endorsed Trump. That’s a union of 5,000 immigration officers, according to the Christian Science Monitor, which also reported that Trump won the endorsement by a vote in which Clinton won only 5 percent of members’ support.
TIM KAINE
So you like the sixteen million deportations ---
MIKE PENCE
Senator that’s nonsense. What you just heard is they have a plan for open borders - amnesty.
TIM KAINE
Our plan is like Ronald Reagan’s plan from 1986.
MIKE PENCE
They call it comprehensive immigration reform on capitol hill. It is amnesty and you heard one of the last he mentioned was border security. That is how Washington always plays it.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor --
TIM KAINE
No….border security three years ago...and Governor Pence was against it.
MIKE PENCE
Ronald Reagan said a nation without borders is not a nation. Donald Trump is committed to restoring our borders.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor John the process restoring the border of the nation how would these immigrants labor they be forcibly removed? A dozen and with border control not only build a wall beneath the wall in the air we
TIM KAINE
But he said the found that setting a city.
MIKE PENCE
The reality is there is heartbreak and tragedy that has stuck American families because people that came into this country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise and activity we don’t have the enterprise or the will to deport them systematically. Donald Trump has said we’re going to move those people out, people who have overstayed their visas, are going to enforce the law of this country. Were going to strengthen immigration and customs enforcement with more resources and more personnel to be able to do that.
Pence says that Trump would focus on deporting criminal aliens. The Department of Homeland Security under the current administration has prioritized the deportation of felons over noncriminals and the deportation of immigrants in the U.S. illegally, who are “the most significant threats to national security, border security and public safety.”
And also by the clear -- whether that although things, that were going to reform the immigration system I.
TIM KAINE
I have to correct Governor Pence.
MIKE PENCE
That's the order that you should do it. Border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law and then, Senator, I’ll work with you when you go back to the Senate, I promise you. We’ll work with you to reform the immigration system.
TIM KAINE
I look forward to working together in whatever capacities we serve in. I just want to make it very very clear that he’s trying to fuzz up what Donald Trump has said. When Donald Trump spoke in Phoenix, he looked the audience in the eye and he said, no we’re building the wall. And we’re deporting everybody. And he said, quote, they will all be gone. They will all be gone. And it is one of those ones we really just go to the tape on it and see what Donald Trump has said.
A CNN poll released last month shows that 6 in 10 respondents oppose Trump’s plan to build a wall along the entire U.S.-Mexico border and two-thirds of them oppose mass deportation of all immigrants in the U.S. illegally. Voters are split on who would be a better president on immigration — Trump or Clinton.
And add to it, we are nation of immigrants. Mike Pence and I both are descended from immigrant families. Some things, you know, maybe said weren’t so great about the Irish when they came. But we've done well by absorbing immigrants and it’s made our nation stronger. When Donald Trump says Mexicans are rapists and criminals, Mexican immigrants, when he says about your judge - a Hoosier judge, he said that Judge Curiel was unqualified because his parents a Mexican, I can’t imagine how you could defend that.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Gentleman, I’d like to shift now to the threat of terrorism. Do you think the world today is a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight years ago? Has the terror threat increased or decreased? Senator Kaine.
TIM KAINE
They terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because bin Laden is dead. The terrorist threat has decreased in some ways because an Iranian nuclear weapons program has been stopped. The terrorist threat to United States troops has been decreased in some ways because there's not a hundred and seventy five thousand in a dangerous part of the world, there’s only fifteen thousand. But there are other parts of the world that are challenging.
Let me tell you this. To beat terrorism, there’s only one candidate who can do it. And that’s Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton was the senator from New York on 9/11. She was there at the World Trade Center when they were still searching for victims and survivors. That seared on to her, the need to beat terrorism. And she's got a plan to do it. She was part of the national security team that wiped out bin Laden.
Here’s her plan to defeat ISIL. First, we gotta keep taking out their leaders on the battlefield. She was part of the team that got bin Laden, and she’ll lead the team that will get Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS. Second, we’ve got to disrupt financing networks. Third, disrupt their ability to recruit on the Internet in their safe havens. But fourth, we also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. That’s the Hillary Clinton plan, she’s got the experience to do it.
Clinton’s proposed plan as described here is effectively Obama’s plan to fight ISIL.
Donald Trump -- Donald Trump can't start a Twitter war with Miss Universe without shooting himself in the foot. Donald Trump doesn't have a plan. He said I have a secret plan, and then he said I know more than all the generals about ISIL. And then he said, I want to call the generals to help me figure out a plan and finally, he said I”m gonna fire all the generals, He doesn’t have a plan. But he does have dangerous ideas. Here’s four. He trash talks the military. The military is a disaster. John McCain is no hero. The generals need all to be fired,and I know more than them. He wants to tear up alliances. NATO is obsolete, and will only work together with Israel if they pay big-league. Third, he loves dictators. He got a personal Mount Rushmore -- Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-Il, Muammar Gadhafi and Saddam Hussein. And last, most dangerously, Donald Trump believes -- Trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons. He said Saudi Arabia should get them.Japan should get them. Korea should get them. And when he was confronted with this and told, wait a minute, terrorists could get those -- proliferation could lead to nuclear war, here’s what Donald Trump said, and I quote, go-ahead, folks enjoy yourself. I’d love to hear Governor Pence tell me what’s so enjoyable or comical about nuclear war.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor Pence?
MIKE PENCE
Did you work on that one a long time cause that had a lot of really creative lines in it.
TIM KAINE
Well, I’m going to see if you can defend any of it.
MIKE PENCE
Look, I can defend, I can make it very clear to the American people. After traveling millions as our Secretary of State, after being the architect of the foreign policy of this administration, America is less safe today than it was the day that Barack Obama became president of the United States. It is absolutely inarguable. We've weakened America's place in the world.
The perception of American weakness dates to at least the end of World War II. But by looking at various quantifiable measures, Foreign Affairs’ Gideon Rose argues the United States is richer and stronger in the present time than it has been in the past, noting: “It has a defense budget equivalent to those of the next seven countries combined and together with its allies accounts for three-quarters of all global defense spending. It has unparalleled power-projection capabilities and a globe-spanning intelligence network. It has the world’s reserve currency, the world’s largest economy, and the highest growth rate of any major developed country. It has good demographics, manageable debt, and dynamic, innovating companies that are the envy of the world.”
It’s been a combination of factors, but mostly it's been a lack of leadership. I mean, I will give you -- I was in Washington, D.C., on 9/11. I saw the clouds of smoke rise from the Pentagon.
TIM KAINE
I was in Virginia.
MIKE PENCE
I know you were. We all of lived through that day as a nation. It was heartbreaking. And I want to give this president credit for bringing Osama bin Laden to justice. But the truth is, Osama bin Laden led Al Qaeda. Our primary threat today is ISIS. And because Hillary Clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement, that would allowed some American combat troops to remain in Iraq and secure the hard-fought gains that American soldiers had won by 2009, ISIS was able to be literally conjured up out of the desert is overrun vast areas that the American soldier had won operation Iraqi freedom. My heart breaks for the likes of Corporal this person. He fell in Falluja John the five. He fought hard for some of the most difficult days in operation Iraqi Freedom. And he paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom and secure that nation. And that nation was secured in 2009. But because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama failed to provide a status of forces agreement that leaves sufficient troops in their, we are back at war.
Obama administration officials blamed Iraq’s unwillingness to agree to a Status of Forces Agreement for what they called their inability to leave a residual American force in Iraq. But when U.S. troops returned there in 2014 after ISIL’s military victories, they did so — and remain there — without such a deal. Washington and Baghdad said other existing diplomatic agreements were sufficient to govern the presence of American troops.
The president has just ordered more troops on the ground. We are back at war in Iraq, and Scott, mom would always come to Memorial Day events in New Castle Indiana, to see me and I’d always give her a hug, that I’d never forget her son. And we never will. This person and the sacrifices American soldier made were wanted in Iraq because of this administration committed created a vacuum in which I seem able to grow. And reverence of the radiant, berating Bill and Hillary Clinton initiated -- one hundred fifty billion dollars -- didn't stop a nuclear weapon program.
TIM KAINE
Stopping a nuclear weapons program without firing a shot.
MIKE PENCE
You essentially guaranteed that Iran will someday become a nuclear power because there’s no limitations once the power of the treaty comes off.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor Pence, Mr. Trump has proposed extreme vetting of immigrants from parts of the world that export terrorism. But that does not address many of the recent terrorist attacks in the United States, such as the Orlando nightclub massacre and the recent bombings in New York and New Jersey. Those were homegrown, committed by U.S. citizens and legal residents. What specific tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks?
MIKE PENCE
Well, I think it’s a great question, Elaine. But it really does begin with us reforming our immigration system and putting the interest, particularly the safety and security of the American people first. I mean Donald Trump has called for extreme vetting for people coming into this country so we don't bring in people who are hostile to our Bill of Rights freedoms, who are hostile to the American our way of life. But also Donald Trump I are committed to suspending the Syrian refugee program and programs and immigration from areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kane want to increase the Syrian refugee program program by five hundred -
Here are the latest numbers of the U.S. refugee program. This fiscal year the U.S. took in 85,000 refugees, among them 12,500 from Syria. The State Department says they are well-vetted.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor, is
MIKE PENCE
But first let’s put the safety of the American people first, instead of Hillary Clinton expanding the Syrian -
TIM KAINE
Or instead of you violating the Constitution, by blocking people by their national origin, rather than whether they’re dangerous.
MIKE PENCE
That’s absolutely false.
TIM KAINE
That’s what the seventh circuit decided. Here’s the difference, Elaine. We have different views on refugee issues and immigration.
Hillary I want to do enforcement based on - are people dangerous? These guys say all Mexicans are bad.
MIKE PENCE
That’s absolutely false.
TIM KAINE
And with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they're dangerous. Donald Trump said keep them out of they’re Muslim. Mike Pence put a program in place to keep them out if they are from Syria. And yesterday, an appellatecourt with three Republican judges struck down a Pence plan and said it was discriminatory.
This measure stopped the state from reimbursing refugee resettlement agencies for helping Syrians, as the Wall Street Journal reported. The three judges who ruled on this case were all conservative, as NPR’s Nina Totenberg wrote this week, and Donald Trump listed one of them as a potential Supreme Court nominee, should he be elected.
Judge Richard Posner wrote in the decision that they furthermore saw no indication of a particular threat from Syrian refugees, and that the law might not be effective anyway: “As far as can be determined from public sources, no Syrian refugees have been arrested or prosecuted for terrorist acts or attempts in the United States. And if Syrian refugees do pose a terrorist threat, implementation of the governor’s policy would simply increase the risk of terrorism in whatever states Syrian refugees were shunted to,” he wrote, as reported by Politico.
MIKE PENCE
And those judges -
TIM KAINE
We should focus upon danger. Not upon discrimination.
MIKE PENCE
Those judges said - it was because there wasn’t any evidence yet that ISIS had infiltrated the United States. Well Germany just arrested three Syrian refugees that we
TIM KAINE
But they told you there’s a right way and -
MIKE PENCE
Well, if you’re going to be critical on me on that, that’s fair game. I will tell you, after two Syrian refugees were involved in attack in Paris that is called Paris’s 9/11.
The attackers in the 2015 Paris attack were EU citizens. French and European officials said at the time they may have used the flow of migrants to cover their travel to and from Syria.
As governor of the state of Indiana, I have no higher priority than safety and security of people in my state.
TIM KAINE
By Governor, that’s -
MIKE PENCE
So you bet I suspended that program. And I stand by that decision and if I am vice President and Donald Trump is as president, were going to put the security of American --
TIM KAINE
Can we just be clear, Hillary and I will do immigration enforcement and we’ll vet refugees based on whether they’re dangerous or not. We won't do it based on discriminating against you or the country you come from our the religion that you practice. That is completely antithetical to the Jeffersonian values of equality.
MIKE PENCE
Elaine, the Director of the FBI or Homeland Security said we can’t know for certain who these people are coming from Syria.
TIM KAINE
When we don’t know who they are, we don’t let them in.
MIKE PENCE
The FBI and Homeland Security said we can’t know for certain. You’ve got to err on the side of safety and security of the American people. Senator.
TIM KAINE
By trashing all Syrians or trashing all Muslims?
ELAINE QUIJANO
Senator Kaine, let me ask you this. Secretary Clinton has talked about an intelligence surge. What exactly would an intelligence surge look like and how would that help identify terrorists with no operational connection to a foreign terrorist organization?
TIM KAINE
Intelligence surge is two things, Elaine. First, dramatically increasing our intelligence capacity by hiring great professionals but also we’ve got from the best Intel and cyber employees in the world right here in the United States working for many of our private sector companies.
Intelligence budget and resources have already been dramatically increased in the 15 years since 9/11. The reforms have included the creation of the office of the Director of National Intelligence, the National Counterterrorism Center, the Department of Homeland Security, and other agencies.
So it involves increasing her own workforce but also striking great partnerships with some of our cyber Intel experts in the private sector so we can, consistent with constitutional principles, gather more intelligence. But a second part of this is really really important. It also means, creating stronger alliances. Because you gather intelligence and then you share your intelligence back and forth with allies. And that's how you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come from one country to the next. Alliances are critical. That's why Donald Trump’s claim that he wants to that NATO is obsolete and that we need to get rid of NATO is so dangerous.
MIKE PENCE
The science plan.
TIM KAINE
Well he said NATO was obsolete. Well, if you push aside your alliances, who will you share intelligence with? Hillary Clinton is a secretary of State who knows how to build alliances. She built the sanctions regime around the world to stop the Iranian nuclear weapons program. And that's what intelligence surge means -- better skill and capacity but also better alliances.
ELAINE QUIJANO
We’re going to turn now to the tragedy in Syria.
MIKE PENCE
Can I speak about the cybersecurity surge at all?
ELAINE QUIJANO
You can have thirty seconds, Governor, quickly.
MIKE PENCE
Donald Trump just spoke about this issue this week. We have got to bring together the best resources in this country to understand that cyber warfare is the new warfare of the asymmetrical enemies that we face in this county. And I look forward if I’m privileged to be in this role to finding role working with you in the Senate to make sure that we resource that effort.
TIM KAINE
We work together in whatever roles we -
MIKE PENCE
I will also tell you that it’s important in this moment to remember that Hillary Clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information on it about drone strikes.
ELAINE QUIJANO
Governor, your thirty seconds are up.
MIKE PENCE
emails from the President of the United States. Her private server was subject to being hacked by foreign governments.
The FBI investigation did find classified material on the server Clinton used to conduct State Department business and some of it related to the targeted killing or drone program. Clinton aides told the FBI that some of those messages involved newspaper articles that openly discussed drone strikes even though the program is secret.Investigators found no evidence intruders actually broke into Clinton’s emails, but they said foreign governments are so sophisticated they may not have left such fingerprints.
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